Can Woo Be Annoying?: with Rachel Kagay
In this bold and hilarious episode, Sarah and Bill are joined by guest Rachel Kagay—a coach, speaker, and unapologetic Woo—to ask the question so many have wondered: Can Woo be annoying? Together, they dig into the reputation, realities, and power of the CliftonStrengths theme Woo (Winning Others Over). Rachel brings humor, heart, and hard-won wisdom as she shares what it’s like to lead with Woo in a world that doesn’t always embrace high energy, visibility, or emotional expression. From awkward introductions to deep connections, they explore how Woo can be misunderstood—and how, when used with intention, it becomes a tool for trust-building, momentum, and genuine human connection.
Main Takeaways
Woo isn’t just about being outgoing—it’s about connection, momentum, and emotional awareness.
People with Woo can unintentionally come off as overwhelming or performative in the wrong setting.
Mature Woo learns to read the room and doesn’t need to be the center of it.
Woo builds trust quickly, which can be a massive asset in coaching, leadership, and sales.
The dark side of Woo is using energy to mask insecurity or avoid depth.
Woo and Relator often get compared, but both are powerful in their own way.
With self-awareness, Woo becomes less about being liked—and more about making people feel seen
Sound Bites
“Can Woo be annoying? Uh… yeah. Especially when it’s immature or unconscious.”
“I can’t help it—I want everyone in the room to like me. But I’m working on that.”
“Woo walks in with ‘party starter’ energy… and sometimes that’s not what the room needs.”
“You don’t outgrow Woo—but you can outgrow needing to be loved by everyone.”
“I had to learn that silence doesn’t mean I failed to connect—it just means people connect differently.”
“Woo isn’t about talking—it’s about reading people.”
“When used well, Woo makes people feel welcome, important, and remembered.”
“If you’ve got Woo and no self-awareness, you might just be draining the room.”
“Woo wants to win people over… but mature Woo asks, ‘Why? For what purpose?’”
“Relator and Woo aren’t opposites—they’re just different timelines of connection.”
“I used to chase being liked. Now I focus on making people feel seen.”
“The tension isn’t Woo vs. depth—it’s Woo without intention vs. Woo with purpose.”
“Woo helps you open the door… but you still have to walk through it with something real.”
“The best compliment to Woo is someone who grounds you and helps you aim it.”
“Woo isn’t shallow—it just likes to start at the surface before diving deeper.”
Bill's Top 10 CliftonStrengths
1) Individualization
2) Developer
3) Activator
4) Woo
5) Restorative
6) Empathy
7) Harmony
8) Connectedness
9) Relator
10) Learner
Sarah's Top 10 CliftonStrengths
1) Positivity
2) Woo
3) Communication
4) Harmony
5) Activator
6) Developer
7) Input
8) Individualization
9) Responsibility
10) Arranger
Official Strengths On Fire Website: https://strengthsonfire.transistor.fm
GET MORE FROM BILL AND SARAH:
Bill's info:
https://billdippel.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/williamdippel/
https://www.instagram.com/billdippelcoach/
Sarah's info:
https://www.wearecollinsco.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahcoachcollins/
https://www.instagram.com/sarahcoachcollins/
Transcript
Dippel (00:02.36)
Another beautiful, wonderful morning to say hello, Arsonists. Hello, Sarah. How are you?
Sarah Collins (00:09.487)
And another one. Sorry, just you set me up for that. I'm just coming with the song lyrics at the top today. And another one. That's a DJ Khaled. Anyways, yes, hello. Hi, how are you? I'm a complete professional person.
Bill Dippel (00:15.478)
I love it. I love it. I love it.
Bill Dippel (00:24.046)
Sarah, I think has had three cups of coffee this morning and she's coming in right in the way she wants. She is completely locked in. I like this. So Sarah...
Sarah Collins (00:29.223)
Woo!
Sarah Collins (00:35.121)
bringing the Wu train for this episode today.
Bill Dippel (00:38.018)
You know, I like the energy we both bring but your energy today so good, so good. I'm thinking it's going to be fun. Hit me with your energy. I'm going to ask you another question right now. And I'm just curious how this runs with you. You, and we talked about this on I think a couple of episodes ago, you are stepping into more large keynoting and facilitation and out of the
Rachel Kagay (00:45.168)
Yeah.
Sarah Collins (00:51.153)
Great, I can't wait.
Bill Dippel (01:06.348)
you know, maybe one-on-one or smaller group part. What difference does that make for you and your clients, how you approach it or how your clients see it?
Sarah Collins (01:17.251)
so interesting. I would love to know how my clients see it.
Sarah Collins (01:23.611)
I don't know, how do you people see it? Please leave a message, send me a DM because as you're saying that, I almost want to be like, don't tell people that, like I'm still working with small groups and I'm still coaching, you know, like I don't want them to think I'm not coming for them anymore. For me, I think I've said this in the past too, it's all about following my energy. I believe I do this work. I'm a CliftonStrengths coach because I strongly believe every human being deserves to experience excellence.
Bill Dippel (01:25.944)
Hmm. Hmm.
Bill Dippel (01:35.18)
Right, right.
Rachel Kagay (01:52.528)
Hmm.
Sarah Collins (01:52.623)
And the way we do that is by doubling down on our natural talents. I truly believe that I have a talent for public speaking. Now I'm sweating saying that because it sounds a little egotistical and like scary. And then also if you see me public speak, you might be like, you though? So, you know, I'm a little like hedging my bets now. But really, when I'm in front of large groups, I feel on fire.
Rachel Kagay (02:03.709)
Hmm.
Bill Dippel (02:07.086)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
To you.
Sarah Collins (02:20.327)
I often will tell people I feel like I black out when I'm up there and it's just like some other person takes over. And so I want for myself to experience excellence. want to move in the way that is scary and is stepping onto a bigger stage that is intimidating, but challenges me in new ways. And I think that is how I best serve people because that's when I'm going to be my best. I'm going to
bring the best insights, give the best inspiration. I'm going to be able to connect with people in a way that maybe other keynotes or facilitators don't because of the relationship building that I tend to do. And I think I lead with authenticity so people can feel like they know me in that and hopefully then accept my influence more. And so I...
I think that the talents I have allow me to step on those bigger stages and bring people along with me better. And then the hope is they will buy in to what I'm saying, which most of the stuff I speak on is living a strengths based life, giving recognition to people and having good energy, having more fun to have good energy to serve people. Cause I'm really right now passionate about.
connection and community. I think I want to be further away from a computer and further connected to people IRL and I want other people to do that. So I have no idea if I answered your question.
Rachel Kagay (03:52.518)
Yeah.
Bill Dippel (03:58.222)
Well, we know what it means for you and I think that's a big part of the question Why why the pivot on your side and I to know that you're getting that energy from those people I think is the basis for that answer, right? I I so One I know you as a good if not great public speaker. I've known this about you for quite some time
Sarah Collins (04:00.794)
Rachel Kagay (04:04.763)
Yeah.
Bill Dippel (04:24.095)
And I'm going to take a little of the heat off you. That's like inviting hecklers to your next large event, right? Let's see what we can bring in. I also absolutely love speaking in front of large groups and I'll take a little of the heat with you. I think I do it really well. I enjoy public speaking. I enjoy the thrill of it. I also enjoy the preparation, the time, the effort that goes to putting it together. And then I...
Rachel Kagay (04:41.03)
Mm-hmm.
Bill Dippel (04:54.113)
Thoroughly love the execution and making a difference for a large group of people. I also would say it requires So much to make connections in that room, but when you do it successfully It means something to everybody in there and when everyone feels that they are part of a large stage presence talk You've really accomplished something so and when you think of the great speakers that you know that
do that and do it really, well. It's great to be even thinking I can do some form of that. So I completely agree with you on this. And I hadn't thought about my response to this question upfront, but you hit it so perfectly in that I do it also and I love all of that energy because some percentage of the room is going to come back and go, I want to work with you and my corporate team, or I want to work with you and me one on one and I want to do more.
Sarah Collins (05:30.023)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (05:30.736)
Yeah.
Bill Dippel (05:51.222)
Interaction where we're building on those concepts that you brought up on the big stage and let's find out and vet them on a smaller stage and see if we can promote that thought process so I I like that
Sarah Collins (06:02.503)
One of the things that you said that it made me think of, not to compare us to Taylor Swift, but we haven't brought her up in a while. So here we are. I think about when I was at the Eris tour, like, thank you also. Oh, I miss it so much. There was this feeling in the stadium. Now, if you're listening, you probably also went to one of the Eris shows, but if you didn't, you've probably been at a concert or a large arena of some sort of a game.
Rachel Kagay (06:03.303)
That's good.
Bill Dippel (06:07.467)
Hey, sure. Taylor, bring her.
Sarah Collins (06:28.901)
a football game, a basketball game, a volleyball game, some sort of thing where there's a bunch of people together. There is something magical about a ton of people, like cheering for, singing the same songs, being on the same wavelength. I love that feeling. Like that feels like such a key component of the human experience that I think we lose so much. You don't get it if you're all on a live stream. You don't get it through a Zoom call.
Rachel Kagay (06:46.108)
Mmm.
Sarah Collins (06:56.359)
You don't even get it in a group of 20 to 50 people, but when you bring thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people together and you're all sort of on that same wavelength, wow. Now have I ever spoke on a stage of hundreds of thousands of people? Not yet. But if I could bring people to that feeling through speaking that Taylor has brought to me, I've made it.
So we'll see.
Bill Dippel (07:23.223)
You've done it. You've done it. And like you, I, you know, I've approached the thousand number for for events. And as you said it, I think again so well when I get to the end of that and I've had some small part in bringing that together and all of us moving in a direction, it's the honor you feel at having the trust of the people in the room. And it didn't win them all over. Right. There were somebody was sitting somewhere, you know, not
Rachel Kagay (07:45.692)
Hmm.
Bill Dippel (07:53.122)
not totally in or something happened, but when you meant so much for so many of the of the group in it it it I think Elevates the conversation to become even in those smaller groups It really helps them understand the passion that you bring to it and I know you bring it because I've seen you do a lot of speaking and in group event and
Once they see that passion, they think I want that. I want to have some part of that in my in my corporation, in my relationships, in my life. And I think that's that's where that that tie in comes together.
Sarah Collins (08:29.711)
And I think this is a great tie into our topic today. Can woo be annoying? And if you found like
Rachel Kagay (08:29.968)
Yeah.
Bill Dippel (08:33.153)
Well, hold on. think Rachel was about to say, wait, Rachel, what was that? I think you were about to dive in on this. Hit me.
Rachel Kagay (08:42.684)
was, but that's OK. Sarah, he should just let you keep going. I was just going to say, I think it was really interesting to listen to the two of you because of our topic today. I can see myself in some of what you both were sharing about loving the energy of a big stage. But what was interesting, I was sitting here and thinking for all of those minutes about how my business has gone the other direction in the last several years. Instead of stages and large group events, I've
I've started to focus more on smaller teams and one-on-one. I don't have, I have, I'm at a disadvantage. I don't have URLs 34 in front of me, but I was, I've been thinking a lot about the same topic lately because for me, when it's, when the group gets too large, I feel the woo energy, but I lose, my maximizer loses the ability to know like, did I capture everyone in the room?
or not, where I've kind of figured out kind of where my sweet spot is to woo a room over the last few years and where I and the group gets the most energy. anyways, just, and for me, my woo loves the view of the long-term investment of seeing their change over time, right? Which I know you both do also, but it's just interesting to see. Because now a large group, a large, large stage.
kind of intimidates me. didn't used to, but it does now. Yeah.
Sarah Collins (10:13.271)
And that is a great example of how woo looks different for everyone, which we're going to get into today. Absolutely. And I think the way that Bill and I were talking about it is sort of gratuitous will. Woo. Gratuitous woo on stage. Everybody come and see us. It's amazing. Our energy's contagious, babs.
Rachel Kagay (10:17.612)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Let's go.
Rachel Kagay (10:26.648)
Yeah.
Bill Dippel (10:36.256)
Here come the hecklers. Here they come. Right. It's like it's like going on on the Internet and saying my network is impenetrable. Good luck. And then waking up the next morning and all your social media has been hacked and your photos are out in the world. So, you know.
Sarah Collins (10:38.503)
you
Rachel Kagay (10:45.104)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Collins (10:51.079)
That's right. That's right. Well, that's what we're doing. We're getting in today about can woo be annoying? And we've got three woos in the room. Leave it to three woos to not invite a non-woo to talk on this subject. That's my favorite thing about this is that we did not invite anyone with woo at 34 because we don't care about their opinion.
Bill Dippel (11:10.71)
so good. Well, who but people with Wu would know how annoying it is? You know, let's write. I mean, it is possible others might have a different perspec- absolutely have a different perspective about how annoying it is. But how annoying is it for us too? The ones that have it. I mean, that's a really good debate question, right?
Sarah Collins (11:12.199)
Jokes.
Rachel Kagay (11:17.605)
right.
Sarah Collins (11:32.879)
You're right. I think it's a great debate question. And so to get into it, let's introduce our guests. Rachel, we have you here today. You're a CliftonStrengths coach. Tell us a little bit about you, your history, your business, and then drop your top 10 strengths at the end of that as well.
Rachel Kagay (11:33.232)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Rachel Kagay (11:48.643)
Okay. Well, I'm Rachel Kegge and I have my own business. I joined you all in the naming your business after yourself approach. I'm Rachel Kegge coaching. To start there, I actually became a certified coach when I was working internal to an organization in Iowa. My husband worked for John Deere at the time and so we were moving really often.
It got to a point where a dear friend of mine and I decided that this is the sort of work we love doing. both have a background. We might go there and some of those stories I thought to share, but our background is in the National FFA Organization. And so we both had done a lot around leadership development and coaching and facilitation. And so had this idea to start our own business. So my husband's job moved us to Grand Island, Nebraska for two and a half years. And during our time there,
we launched Point One Development, which is a people development business. And two and a half years after that, we moved back to Northwest Missouri, which is my husband's hometown of Maysville, Missouri. And he moved back here and left. We left John Deere to join their family farming operation. So that's what we do here. And about that same time or shortly after, my business partner at the time and I decided
One, that a 50-50 partnership in business, if it's not a marriage, feels like a second marriage. And we just felt like we both just needed one of those at a time. So it was for our best. It was for the best for our friendship, for that to divide. And so she continues to run 0.1 development and kills it. And I started my own Rachel Kage coaching and consulting. Now, what I failed to include in that is that in 2015,
Bill Dippel (13:24.406)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Sarah Collins (13:26.705)
Relatable.
Rachel Kagay (13:42.962)
the end of 2013, I attended the Gallup Accelerated Strengths Coaching course and then finished that certification in early 2014. So I've been around doing this for a long time and early on that looked like a lot of teams and large groups and stages and now looks a lot more like executive and management coaching and then coaching the teams of those executives and managers. So that's what I do now.
Let's see, what else? My top 10 are Harmony, Maximizer, Woo, Belief, Responsibility, Discipline, Consistency, Includer, Connectedness, and Developer.
Sarah Collins (14:25.169)
So you're hitting us.
Bill Dippel (14:25.312)
She only cheated down at the sheet when she got to connectedness. Very well done. very well done. But stared right at me saying I'm very impressive.
Rachel Kagay (14:29.083)
I did that nine and 10 I have to remember. Yeah.
Sarah Collins (14:32.231)
Totally okay. So.
four executing themes, four relationship building themes, and two influencing themes.
Rachel Kagay (14:42.545)
Mm-hmm, yes.
Bill Dippel (14:42.604)
Perfect. Perfect. So, you know, Rachel, let's just jump right into the debate question today. Woo is number three for you. You also have some harmony where that's number one for you, where as we're thinking about the people around us, we like them all rowing in the same direction. We don't like seeing the fluffle. I have harmony high as well. It's it's it. I don't I don't like feeling like I've caused.
Rachel Kagay (14:53.501)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (15:05.831)
Mm-hmm.
Bill Dippel (15:11.168)
the commotion in the room per se. don't stir the pot to stir the pot. I tend to want to be on a ship moving in the same direction. But for me, there are absolutely moments when Wu is annoying. My Wu washes over people and annoys them, which then, of course, my harmony can get a little pushed out of joint as well. on your end is...
Can harmony be annoying? What does that look like for you? Do you think there's a time when your harmony gets in your way?
Rachel Kagay (15:43.409)
My Harmony or my Woo? I mean, we can talk either one, but change the...
Bill Dippel (15:44.562)
I'm sorry, your woo. I'm sorry, your woo. yeah, I just threw it. I just threw it totally sideways. And when you're if you think your woo gets in the way, does your harmony get fluffled in that way?
Sarah Collins (15:46.971)
And I was like, Bill, you're just changing the topic of our podcast here.
Rachel Kagay (15:57.374)
Totally, yes. Funny is I was interested to see if either of you took a different position because I feel like the debate is short from my point of view because yes, I think sometimes it can be annoying, especially when I'm not in a place of health myself, like I'm not at my best, or depending on the strengths of the other people involved, we can go there as the conversation evolves. But I've got some stories, especially from when I was...
younger and my talents were less mature. I was less aware of the gifts that I had and they ran me more than I ran them. I was called out for my woo a couple of times that really stick in my memory. Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. So I mentioned in my introduction that part of my background is in the National FFA Organization and I had the opportunity at
Bill Dippel (16:37.707)
True. True for all of us. Yeah. Yeah. Hit me. Yeah.
Sarah Collins (16:41.551)
You want to share any specific examples right now?
Rachel Kagay (16:52.742)
at 18 years old to serve as a state FFA officer for Missouri. And at that time, the organization, yeah, yep. Go for it. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Bill Dippel (17:00.203)
So Rachel, hold on one sec. I'm going to interrupt you for a second. So you're saying FFA Association, correct? And Rachel made it so for our arsonist, the three of us shared an Uber ride to the airport from an event recently and and talked. then Rachel and I were in a different terminal than you, Sarah. So we actually went and had dinner and hung out and talked. FFA does not stand for future farmers of America. Is that correct, Rachel?
Rachel Kagay (17:20.711)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Collins (17:21.627)
Rude.
Rachel Kagay (17:28.701)
Correct. That's what the acronym originally stood for. But in, I believe, the late 80s, they changed that. And it's just the National FFA Organization. Most people still know it as Future Farmers. But that organization has, you do not have to have any interest in a career in agriculture to find some really cool ways to get engaged in that organization. But yes.
Bill Dippel (17:40.363)
Okay.
Bill Dippel (17:52.172)
Yeah, you laid that on me at the airport and I've always called it Future Farmers of America. So thank you for that. And you were moving through on to becoming an officer for FFA.
Rachel Kagay (17:58.55)
Sure. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, that's okay. So I was serving as a state officer and the organization had these like regional conferences. So officer teams from like eight different states would get together for a leadership summit. And at that stage in my life, that was my actual, my first exposure to strengths was our team got to take the assessment. We had a very large team, but it was the first time that I had some powerful language to explain who I was.
and where I shine, but also understand why people were different from me or didn't think about things the same way. But something about Wu being named for me lit it up even bigger. And so we went to this regional conference. I'll never forget it. And this has been 20 years ago. But my Wu wanted to know every single person in that room and wanted them to like me.
Sarah Collins (19:00.891)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (19:01.486)
And so it was like really on fire and I was working the room and I felt awesome. But we had these separate meetings with just our team. And I'll never forget that now I know my harmony picked up real quick on the fact that another team member had a problem with me and it caught me completely off guard. so afterwards I stopped him and I was like, Alex, what's going on? Why? I can tell you've got an issue. And he called me out and he said,
you look so fake to those of us that actually know you. Like you're trying way too hard. Cool it. And that has sat with me for 20 years, Like recognizing that.
Bill Dippel (19:44.331)
You still know it now, you still quote it.
Rachel Kagay (19:47.373)
Yes, exactly. But it was a call out of that woo and overdrive, right? That it was driving people nuts because I was just trying too hard to be liked, to win everyone over, to know everyone in the room instead of being just kind of comfortable in my own skin, which is where I think woo kind of helps and is a superpower for me today. so anyways, that example from 20 years ago quickly popped in my mind when you posed the theme for the day of is woo annoying? Because I was told so once.
Sarah Collins (20:17.615)
Yeah, well and I think you bring up a great point that story perfectly illustrates how Wu can be a shapeshifter, right? We can, when we are especially in our element in a big group of people, people with Wu can sort of shape shift or become chameleons to win others over, you know? And so it's like, what does the room demand of me?
Rachel Kagay (20:25.372)
Totally.
Rachel Kagay (20:37.212)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Collins (20:40.399)
What do I think this person will like? And I'm going to bring that out. And then when I turn and look at this person, they need something else. So it's this superpower because it has this ability to read the room. But if you're not mature, like you're saying, if you haven't invested in it, if you don't know why you're reading the room, what the purpose is, who else you are, what are the themes you bring, and you just go in there with woo in the driver's seat, you can get that phony or fake.
Rachel Kagay (20:46.961)
Yep.
Sarah Collins (21:09.787)
facade or appearance or perception from other people because they see you, especially I love that it's like someone, you know, someone knows you who you are and they see you kind of shape shift for every person. And yeah, that could be so irritating for people to say like, why are you being so fake with everyone? This isn't who you are. You just want everyone to like you so much that you are changing who you are in order to bend to their favor.
Rachel Kagay (21:21.562)
Yeah.
Bill Dippel (21:37.675)
I read this a bit too as I'm going to be in a room with people and new people are going to be cycling through or some of the events we go to and things are happening. I look at this almost from a military term as a target rich environment. So for me, everybody cycling in as someone I want to want to I want to woo it up with a bit. If I get to that.
Rachel Kagay (21:57.19)
Mmm.
Bill Dippel (22:04.586)
to get to that spot. We've talked before that sometimes I don't want to go to those events because I know the energy that's going to take. So I want to back out of that or I want to I'll stay, you know, I'll go eat alone tonight or something. But when there is that constant influx and I want to do it, I've caught myself over time shortchanging the people I'm already spending time with. So I will I will be communicating and talking and laughing and somebody will walk in and I'll say, oh, my God, I really have to talk to them. I'll be back and.
Rachel Kagay (22:12.678)
Totally.
Rachel Kagay (22:33.948)
100 %
Bill Dippel (22:35.21)
How often do we tell the people right in front of us you mean less to me than the person I'm gonna go talk to right now and That and I'm not meeting it that way clearly my woo is just you know, hey you you have a moment it needs to change but That's that is the message I'm sending and I've had to become very conscious to change that that attitude that action
Rachel Kagay (22:41.198)
Yeah, I-
Rachel Kagay (22:56.034)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't know if you remember, Bill, but at that event where we all ubered away from together, you and I ended up sitting before dinner one night out in the hallway in those fun seats. And I kind of said, normally my woo wants to be right in the middle of the action. that way, was a really interesting event for me to notice.
Bill Dippel (23:13.948)
yeah.
Rachel Kagay (23:22.544)
well before I ever knew this was going to be an option on our calendars together, but to really notice how my woo has matured and how it's been honed over the years because in previous years, even a year ago when I went to an event like that, I had this need to be known by everyone in the room, even if that wasn't realistic or necessary. And this year I went with a very different focus.
a very different intention. so instead of trying to stay right in the middle of the action all the time, right, there was a couple of times where I went away and went back to my room and took some time to like restore my energy so that I wouldn't come home completely depleted because Wu can look like that too sometimes. But it's become more targeted over time so that I try not to do what you just described, Bill, because I've been so guilty of that too, of it kind of.
Bill Dippel (24:08.616)
Yeah.
Sarah Collins (24:16.656)
Hmm.
Rachel Kagay (24:17.504)
skipping around to make sure I've hit everyone like a butterfly in the room instead of being more intentional and winning over a smaller group or having a more meaningful conversation.
Bill Dippel (24:26.686)
And you bring up such an amazing moment that I had totally forgotten about. And that is two of the woos on this podcast went and found another hallway at that event that was tied to another event. I don't know if you remember this, Sarah, there was another large event happening at like another conference room. Rachel and I found each other sitting near that event to get away from the moments.
Rachel Kagay (24:37.361)
Yeah.
Bill Dippel (24:53.418)
the interactions, the constant flux of people I need to talk to or I feel I need to and be next to I think it was a pharmaceutical event that we knew nobody and we were sitting down there eating quietly just like, we can talk to each other, but let's not, you know, we don't want to be in the right at the tables with everybody else. So it brings up another great element to woo, which is not only can it be annoying to others, which is what I think we keep highlighting, it can be annoying to us.
Rachel Kagay (25:09.263)
Yeah.
Rachel Kagay (25:22.428)
Mm.
Bill Dippel (25:23.53)
I can get drained or annoyed by how much I realize what I'm doing and the drive to meet and win over so many other people. I can find it annoying of myself where I feel like I've let not only myself down but the people around me. Again, that ties into the harmony you and I had talked about a little in the beginning. I do not only do I think some people think you're a car salesman, you're trying to pitch me something, you're too big to be real.
Rachel Kagay (25:43.59)
Mm-hmm.
Bill Dippel (25:53.682)
Sometimes I feel that way. And I'm curious, you find that you're annoyed by your woo Sarah? I'll start with you. Do you find your woo annoying as well?
Sarah Collins (25:55.601)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Collins (26:04.667)
Well, I will say 90 % I love my woo. I think it saves me and I don't find it annoying. I'm so happy I have it because I will go to a big event and I will sit in my car nervous. Like I don't know who's in there, especially if I'm not leading it. If I'm a facilitator, I know my place. But if I'm just a participant in a big event, I can get timid and
Rachel Kagay (26:10.598)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (26:24.54)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Collins (26:29.395)
I know now I've done it enough times that once I get in there, my we will take over. It's like this girl I didn't know inside of me and she comes out to play and I'm like, okay, we're fine. Like there's someone here to talk to. connect to them. Like I'm fine. And so I love that. I love being able to win people over quickly. I love being able to connect with people fast. I love collecting new people that I know. I love running into people. know I think about
Rachel Kagay (26:34.138)
Yeah.
Rachel Kagay (26:49.433)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Collins (26:55.047)
when I was in college. And this is gonna say a lot about me, but I really think that this is the woo. I recently went to my 20 year high school reunion, but I went to a very, very, very small school. So it was pretty easy to win everyone over immediately and then they're your people. But it wasn't until I came to college to a 25,000 person university that my woo came out to play. And I was a party girl.
Rachel Kagay (27:07.621)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (27:18.812)
Mm.
Sarah Collins (27:20.267)
no way around it. I was a woo girl, party girl, and I know that's because my woo was just on fire. I loved meeting people. And once I turned 21 and went to the bars, there's this bar here in Lincoln that we used to go to, the Millennials, it's called Main Street. And it was our first stop every night when we would go out. And I can remember the joy. It literally makes me so happy to think about walking into Main Street and being like, ha!
Rachel Kagay (27:27.014)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Collins (27:46.843)
How are you?" And just, it literally felt like a parade. I'd be like, that's my girlfriend English class and that's a friend from last year and that was my old roommate. And the joy it brought me that I knew everybody and could hug and handshake and walk by and just do that. So glorious. And I love any time I'm in a situation where I feel like that, like, all these people. But there is that 10%. That is annoying.
Rachel Kagay (27:47.964)
Sure.
Sarah Collins (28:15.503)
And for me, how it shows up is there are people that I want to maintain long, deep, continuous relationship with. And that's really hard for me. I'm so good at collecting people and friends and always replacing who I want to talk to with the next new shiny thing that I will let people go. I hate admitting this. It doesn't sound like a good quality or trait to have.
Rachel Kagay (28:15.621)
Sure.
Rachel Kagay (28:29.21)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Collins (28:44.891)
But for the people who are like my best friends, I have to try really, really hard to remember to talk to them because regular communication, regular seeing people, that's how you maintain a relationship. And that is something I have to work hard at and I have to find tricks to do it.
Rachel Kagay (29:02.683)
I feel so seen. I can relate to that like 100%, especially with that whole intention, the piece of the necessary intention to go deeper and to be in it for the long haul, that whole new shiny thing. That's real. But to your other points, Sarah, I completely agree. I wouldn't have the business I have today if I didn't have Woo.
Sarah Collins (29:06.148)
Yeah
Bill Dippel (29:06.697)
I feel so seen.
Rachel Kagay (29:32.363)
I wouldn't be able to win clients over as quickly as I do or figure out how to get a whole team kind of vibing with the same energy in a team session if I don't think I could have if I don't have the woo that I have. And so yes, based on the question you asked, I can go there and I can talk about all of the ways that it does sometimes get in my way.
Sarah Collins (29:51.825)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (30:01.55)
I love that I have Woo, don't get me wrong. And I think that it has served me incredibly well to be. I don't think that I would have the, you mentioned when you went through my top 10, right? The thing you didn't say that's quite obvious is that I don't have any strategic thinking. And in fact, I don't have that until number 13 on my list, right? I don't think that I could have the business that I have or be an entrepreneur if I didn't have like the relational energy that Woo gives me to get out there and see people.
then I just kind of make it up as I go. Not entirely, but that's certainly how it was in the early days.
Sarah Collins (30:35.589)
Yeah, there's a lot of that in business. You know, another thing about the woo that I think, and this comes with every strength, but like anything, woo needs development and it needs boundaries. So one of the things that I think it's good that we're all in this type of business is because my woo and I also have high communication, so that's undeniable, but I love talking.
And so one of the ways it also annoys me is, especially when I was younger, I think most of the time I'm better at it now, but I still run into this. I can dominate a conversation. I can dominate a social situation. I can be the star of the show effortlessly, but that is actually not always the way to win others over. Right? Like that doesn't make people like you being the star of the show.
Rachel Kagay (31:22.277)
Yeah, yeah.
Sarah Collins (31:27.033)
necessarily and so I have had to really over the years both personally and professionally
Think about what am I trying to do here? I have to try really hard to listen. I have high individualization, right? So I've got to tap into that. When I'm in a coaching session, one-on-one with someone, I'm not wooing at all. I have to put it in the trunk and I put individualization in the driver's seat because I have to be listening. And listening has been a really hard skill for me to learn, but I have been able to learn how to do it and actually helps my woo.
Rachel Kagay (32:01.177)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Collins (32:02.503)
because actually makes people like me more when I let them talk and I just listen. I think there are certain woos who are better at that. But because I have so many other influencing themes, I'm a gabber, which I also think is part of the reason I like public speaking, because you know what happens when you're on a stage doing a keynote? Nobody else is allowed to talk.
Rachel Kagay (32:07.867)
Totally.
Bill Dippel (32:10.13)
Yeah.
Rachel Kagay (32:19.045)
Sure.
Rachel Kagay (32:24.587)
You have the mic, the only one, right? That's so great.
Bill Dippel (32:27.165)
So good.
Sarah Collins (32:27.355)
That's right, you're only speaking when I give you the mic, you're welcome.
Rachel Kagay (32:31.213)
Yeah.
Bill Dippel (32:31.346)
Sarah, I've been trying to get a word in edgewise here for five minutes and I feel you're driving the point home by high. No, I. Well, something that came to my mind when you brought up Main Street is that the bar. about gosh, it's been a while now, but let's say 12 years ago for me, a bar opened in Reno.
Sarah Collins (32:40.753)
This is an example.
Sarah Collins (32:48.527)
the bar.
Rachel Kagay (32:49.435)
Mm-hmm.
Bill Dippel (32:58.216)
And it's I'll give it a shot. It's called Chapel Tavern. It's pretty famous around here. It's been around for quite some time. It has an amazing wall of liquor on the wall up high. So it's it's a draw. It's dark. It's kind of fun. And I was going to Chapel Tavern frequently enough with a group of guys that when one of the local magazines came to ask it, hey, how do you do your business? What's you know, they came up with a story about we have this group of guys that comes in every Thursday.
And they wanted to know a drink. One of them called me to get a drink recipe on a Saturday night for something. We make them all the time. And we think they come in to avoid their wives on Thursday, but they're great group to have come in have, you know, and we knew exactly who they were talking about, because six weeks prior to that, I had called them and said, how do you make this drink? And if you have the bartender's personal number right that you might go to a bar too frequently.
Rachel Kagay (33:39.451)
You
Bill Dippel (33:56.989)
And essentially when you said I loved it at the time, but we still go. I was there last week. I was there the week before, not on Thursdays anymore. But, you know, we'll we'll ping in. I still love walking in and being like, Sean, how are you? Or Lex, the bartender and walking in with Scott, a friend of mine and we're we run into two or three patrons that we hey, it was great seeing you again. So I don't know that that's gone away for me. Your Main Street component.
Rachel Kagay (34:03.995)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (34:11.003)
Mm-hmm.
Bill Dippel (34:27.16)
I still feel when we're walking into those places. So.
Sarah Collins (34:30.727)
Well, that's just because you go to bars still and I don't. I would love it too if I went to a bar. I just, you know, have little children at home. So I don't, I'm not in the season of life where I go to the bars.
Rachel Kagay (34:31.355)
Totally.
Bill Dippel (34:33.383)
Okay.
Bill Dippel (34:38.562)
I totally get it. Yeah, I'm past the little child stage, so we get to, know, Main Street may come back in for you at some point. I'm just I'm just saying. No, know.
Rachel Kagay (34:38.843)
gonna say maybe you'll have those days again. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sarah Collins (34:46.705)
I honestly hope not. I do not need to be at Main Street. They're gonna be like, who's the cougar that just walked in?
Bill Dippel (34:55.364)
It's so unfair. Yeah.
Rachel Kagay (34:56.207)
to both of your point, like there's still places in my life, like it might not be a bar, but like my woo turns on even like as I'm walking into church, right? And it's like making like saying hi to everyone, right? And then I'll leave sometimes and be like, I didn't have one deep conversation all morning because I just kind of worked the room or like going to my kid's school, right? Some sort of assembly or something like I or even like a basketball game. Like I'm
I'm kind of working the crowd, right? Like I'm doing the same thing, kind of saying hi to everyone. And I have a really wide network. And I find myself like choosing to be involved in things that help me get to know the most people, right? Like that are gonna like help me have the opportunity to network a bit more, have a wider reach. I don't tend to stay involved in things that are...
Sarah Collins (35:41.255)
Mmm, yeah.
Rachel Kagay (35:53.487)
very small and focused on a small group of people for very long, for better or worse, right? Except for my coaching when I've got some longer term clients. But you said something earlier, Sarah, that also made me think about the ways that I've tried to figure out in the last few years how my Woo shows up in the quieter moments. Meaning you mentioned one on one coaching. And Woo is showing up probably in how you listen.
And I think I do the same thing. I was noticing, again, same event that we were all at. When I sat down at a table with people, it was important for me to have made at least eye contact with every person at the table before the day kicked off, whether I had an opportunity to actually verbally say hi or not, to kind of have that moment of connection and feel like I had at least started the process of winning them over.
I'll be in a room of people, whether it's with a client team or our Sunday school class at church, where I'm making eye contact and reading body language and thinking through whether or not everyone is engaged and won over, not even necessarily by what I say, but just by being a part of the group that we're in, if that makes sense. I'm also super aware, I've noticed, about, and this might be the influence of some of my other themes as well.
but in thinking through how I tell stories or what stories I tell to make sure that most people feel won over by them. So like as an example, our group at church, our group that meets before before the sermon, right, they call it Sunday school, was mostly couples. And then in the course of about a year, year and a half, one woman lost her husband in a really tragic accident.
Another went through a really nasty divorce. And suddenly, any time examples that were coming up or stories we were sharing that were heavy on marriage felt very tender to me. I was just very aware that we're going to lose people here if we're not thinking about our language being inclusive. Now, I do have Includer number eight, so that's probably where I was coming from too. But I also see my woo in that to make sure people stay won over and want to be a part of what I'm a part of.
Rachel Kagay (38:18.414)
Does that make sense? Does that resonate? Yeah.
Sarah Collins (38:19.579)
Yeah, yeah, I can also hear, I think your connectedness. I feel like you're really good at connecting the dots with the people of like what they need.
Bill Dippel (38:19.663)
Yeah, yeah, completely.
Yeah.
Rachel Kagay (38:23.866)
Sure.
Bill Dippel (38:28.039)
And knowing how that transpired in their life might affect how they feel about the conversation you're about to have with this group. That does feel like a very connectedness moment and a powerful one.
Rachel Kagay (38:38.65)
Yeah.
Rachel Kagay (38:45.4)
Which is so interesting because I would have told you a year ago that I wasn't sure I claimed my connectedness, but for a whole number of reasons in the last year I finally own it. It's very obvious how it shows up for me, a year or so ago, even though I've had these results for more than a decade, that one really annoyed me. But now I see it and own it. Yeah.
Bill Dippel (38:59.407)
I'm in. I'm in now. Yeah.
Sarah Collins (39:10.279)
Yeah.
Bill Dippel (39:10.457)
Really annoyed me. So good. I so I want to pivot back a hair here. Sarah, you said when I was younger, I was going to do these things. When I was younger, I used Wu like a like a flame for outside on a night with on a hot summer night so that people would be drawn and we would do things. And then I would use all of my other themes to call curve them out of my life. So.
I was pretty much an asshole for a big chunk of my 20s and 30s where, hey, let's, this is fun. Let's get, you know what? I don't like you. Or, no, I don't like that part of you. Or.
Rachel Kagay (39:47.682)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Collins (39:49.913)
You have that relator. think it's so fascinating to have woo and relator together. I think you don't see it that often as a theme dynamic. And I think they often, that's where I think this comes up for you is like this budding, bringing people in, but then holding them to a really high relationship standard.
Bill Dippel (39:52.655)
I do. I, yeah.
Rachel Kagay (39:54.937)
Yeah.
Bill Dippel (39:57.916)
Yeah.
Bill Dippel (40:02.235)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rachel Kagay (40:03.867)
Mm-hmm.
Bill Dippel (40:08.089)
Yeah, and talking to our fellow arsonists that are listening to them to the podcast, especially our younger ones. If you're listening to this and you're under a certain age, I mean, I'll talk about my age. I'm 59. It's fine. Let's go. Let's go way back. So and if you're if you're younger and you're thinking, you know, I have a superpower of making this connection or if you know your strengths and who is there just.
Think about how those other themes play into woo and how you might be using them. Sarah, for you, it was, I'm going to be really radiant walking in. For me, it was much more selective. I would draw it in and then call it out, which to be honest, a lot of people were like, he thinks his crap doesn't stink. You know, he has that attitude about him where, either I like you or we're not going to communicate. And that was fair. I, I own that. That was a chunk of that.
Rachel Kagay (40:44.41)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (40:54.276)
Sure.
Bill Dippel (41:02.247)
So as a a younger listener or even a listener of an More age that still finds yourself thinking of that or how that happened Rachel I want to ping that back to you We're talking about your woo now and and at the recent event how you and I met elsewhere How do you think your woo has evolved? From a younger Rachel to a to a current Rachel
Rachel Kagay (41:26.934)
gosh. Well, I think it's some of the things that have come up here, right? That it was a lot of what you're saying, Bill, the same thing about I wanted to know everyone, right? I wanted to be, when I was in college, I wanted to be involved in the things that would, frankly, make me most visible, right? And that didn't create long-term sustainable relationships. There's a group of friends that I was a part of.
but not as deeply invested. And they still get together today. And I will see that they're hanging out. like, I missed out on that because I didn't invest in it at that age. I made some missteps there. They didn't do anything wrong. I did. So anyways, I think that there's some ways that it's matured significantly past that point. also think, Billy, you talked about your later and your woo being that selective, that pull and push.
Sarah Collins (42:02.864)
Mm-hmm.
Bill Dippel (42:21.286)
Mm hmm. Sure.
Rachel Kagay (42:22.466)
My maximizer can do that with my woo a lot. And so I've had to figure out how to allow the selectivity of my maximizer be an asset and not a detriment, right? Meaning, how does it help me be at my best and show up to win people over in an authentic way and not in a way that makes people feel like they weren't part of the end group for me, right? So I'm not, I'm trying not to do the whole like,
Sarah Collins (42:48.359)
Yeah.
Rachel Kagay (42:51.874)
while I'm in a conversation with you at an event, also scanning the room to see who else I might really want to be in conversation with, which is certainly what it looked like earlier in my life. I'd go to a networking event, but I'd be kind of scanning the room for who the most important people in my mind were to know and went over there. And so you and I might be in the middle of a conversation, but if I saw someone walk in that was on my list, I kind of drop things in the middle of it or.
Sarah Collins (42:59.622)
Yeah.
Rachel Kagay (43:18.542)
find a very awkward way to leave the conversation to go seek out that person. And so now, I mean, I'm not saying that never happens anymore, but I just, it's some of the things that I've mentioned here about it showing up not only in the big ways that make me, where I can turn on the energy and be the center of attention or the life of a party, but I have also found ways that my woo shows up in small ways and more quieter ways that helps me.
win people over for the longer term, and not just the flash and the pan at an event. Does that make sense? Did that answer your question?
Bill Dippel (43:55.502)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sarah Collins (43:55.685)
Yeah. And I think it's really interesting because I'm actually a little jealous of part of that woo of yours because, you know, we have ourselves thinking deeply about our woos. And while, yes, we know if you're in conversation at networking event and you're scanning to look for someone more important, that's like a faux pas. We should not be doing that. It's rude. It makes people feel not important. But it tells me that you had the tenacity to go talk to the most important person in the room.
Rachel Kagay (44:09.787)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (44:25.051)
Mmm.
Sarah Collins (44:25.691)
I almost find my woo holds me back and I will explain, you know, there's that winning part. If I go to a conference and there's a speaker like the event we were all at when Janine was up there, I thought she was phenomenal. I loved her. I did not go talk to her. I did not go introduce myself to her. And I do that time and time again. if I am thinking, I don't know what to say to win that person over. I will not go talk to them. It holds me back.
Rachel Kagay (44:32.709)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (44:40.483)
Hmm?
Sarah Collins (44:55.459)
Even though maybe in that, if I would have ended up in conversation, we just happenstance sit at the table together and it's natural, I could have rocked it, I know it, right? But I will only go for these like big far reaches, the most important person in the room, I get so afraid that I will not win them over, that I don't even try. And unless I just happenstance end up with them, that we have a common friend, someone introduces me to them.
Rachel Kagay (44:55.781)
Sure.
Rachel Kagay (45:05.337)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (45:15.397)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Bill Dippel (45:17.211)
Hmm.
Sarah Collins (45:24.303)
I'll turn it on, but yeah, I will let it hold me back. And I've heard from another coach before who had high woo. She would say if she had a client or a potential client that she didn't think would accept her proposal, she would never send the proposal to them for fear that they wouldn't like her. And she realized it was her woo. Her woo was so afraid to not win the client. It would never send the proposal.
Rachel Kagay (45:41.615)
Mm-hmm.
Bill Dippel (45:44.196)
Wow.
Sarah Collins (45:50.779)
And I think that's such an interesting like saboteur of woo sometimes with us because if it's like, if I can't win, I'm not gonna play.
Rachel Kagay (45:54.561)
Yes.
Bill Dippel (46:00.483)
I think think Wu being annoying for you again, we brought up when is it annoying for you? And right there, if you're spotting the saboteur side, I've always used it as the flame to go talk to the most important person in the room to Rachel. I want to make that connection. Right. But then do we click? Because if we don't, it's OK. Gone. Right. So, yeah.
Rachel Kagay (46:00.623)
That's so int-
Yes.
Rachel Kagay (46:20.483)
Yeah, but it's not OK to me. like, that's Sarah. It gives me this energy, like, I can go do that. But then if I walk away and I'm like, that didn't go well, I will obsess over that in my brain for far too long. So I think what you're saying, Sarah, I also so deeply resonate with, because as I was thinking about this episode and preparing to have this conversation with you both, I recognize that I think woo is where imposter syndrome screams the loudest.
for me. If I don't think that I've won them over or I can win them over, I'll tell myself a lot of stories about what other people are probably thinking to assess whether or not I've won them over or it's even possible. And that's where I think my imposter syndrome gets the most loud is around woo, for sure. And that's where it drives me the most crazy.
Sarah Collins (47:15.591)
Yeah.
Here's a question I'd love to hear from both of you. For people who are listening to this episode because they know someone, either they manage someone or they work with someone or they live with someone with woo and they find it annoying. What do you suggest people say to their friends? Right? Or if you're, if you are a manager and you can coach somebody or you just live with someone, you're friends with someone and they have
Rachel Kagay (47:42.427)
Hmm.
Sarah Collins (47:45.291)
woo that is annoying to you, what are some tips or tricks you can give people to help their woo friends not be annoying with their woo?
Rachel Kagay (47:55.296)
Bill, did you have something right away? Okay. Yeah.
Bill Dippel (47:58.094)
No, I I was I thought you were gonna you're gonna jump in for me on my side. It's exposure. I have to push the exposure component because if you if you meet me and you think my woo is salesman II and trying to put get something over on you.
What you'll inevitably what most people realize with me especially clients when i've worked with them for a while as they'll pull me aside and go my god, you are exactly like this. This is actually you And it only it only happens with exposure so I Maybe the advice is I hate to say it you got to hang out with the person that's driving you nuts a little more to really understand where they're at an explanation of how wu fits and it may not you know, it may not be there and
Rachel Kagay (48:27.759)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Bill Dippel (48:45.793)
Also basement balcony or mature immature be be aware of what that looks like for that person And but for me it's exposure. I would push the exposure component to say I think you're gonna find a different result to this If you if you consistently stick with it and find where it's at Often i'm wrong, but yeah
Rachel Kagay (48:48.121)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (48:55.824)
Mm.
Rachel Kagay (49:04.635)
Yeah.
I often tell, well, I say this all the time in coaching. I say healthy people ask for what they need. And so what I often am telling people in coaching is if this is driving you crazy, right? And you have a need that's not being met because of that, then have a conversation. You have to enter in a conversation about it. I wish that my husband was on the podcast with us because I think my Woo often annoys him. And so we could ask him, he would probably have a better answer even than I do.
But I think because I have an example of that in that we were traveling together to a college friend's wedding just a couple of years ago and it was in Denver and so we had to fly and by the time we were walking into our hotel lobby in Denver I had made a friend in the Kansas City airport waiting for our flight. I talked to the person in the row with us about the book they were reading almost all the way there.
We got in an Uber and I learned the Uber driver's life story because I just find it fascinating and love entering into those conversations. And so we're standing in line to get our hotel room and I get ready to just engage in conversation with the people behind us. And my husband grabbed my elbow, leaned in and quietly whispered, can you please stop talking to strangers? I am exhausted.
Bill Dippel (50:27.439)
Ha ha ha ha ha.
Rachel Kagay (50:27.738)
Which I think that's another story that just so clearly stands in my mind because what an example of him asking for what he needed because my woo was exhausting him, right? And so, and we couldn't have done that earlier in our marriage, but I just think healthy people ask for what they need. so often when we are in that woo mode, we don't know. We might lack self-awareness sometimes, especially if we're not in a place of health to recognize how it's.
impacting the people around us. And so we need other people to hold the mirror up and help us see that so that we can sharpen those woo skills. The other thing I would say is help guide those people to outlets where they can leverage that talent for good. Meaning if they're wooing too hard in your household or in your friend group, right? Where somewhere else you could go with them, perhaps to your point Bill, where they can
practice that woo a little bit more, right? I know for me, if I have a... I used to think in my business if I had a day with no meetings on the calendar that was a great thing because I could get deep work done, but then I started recognizing that those were my least productive days. That if I have at least one meeting or coaching call on my calendar, then I'm going to be able to use that energy and momentum to get a ton done the rest of the day even if I'm just working by myself.
And those days I haven't had any conversations, I cannot stop talking when my husband gets home. Right? Like all of that energy, the conversation that's been happening in my head spews out. And so I would just say help them find an outlet if you need them to have somebody that's not just you. Yeah.
Bill Dippel (51:59.651)
Right.
Sarah Collins (51:59.793)
Mm-hmm.
Bill Dippel (52:08.312)
They need that outlet and it's somebody I trust implicitly once said to me Wu has to eat Wu has to eat and it cannot always eat at home. I don't remember who told me that I mean, I'm sure it was a I'm sure it was somebody important in my I don't know but
Sarah Collins (52:09.798)
Yeah.
Rachel Kagay (52:16.664)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (52:21.708)
Yes.
Rachel Kagay (52:28.047)
I was gonna say, I feel like I've heard that on this podcast. She said, yeah, I think she was really smart.
Sarah Collins (52:28.113)
She sounds really smart. She sounds really smart.
Bill Dippel (52:31.054)
whoever she was. Yeah, she seemed smart. But I feel that too when you come home and you're offloading that some you know, my woo doesn't necessarily get fed at home with my wife because now I'm decompressing or I've done woo all day and now I need to do it elsewhere. But my chapel nights, those absolutely my chapel tavern nights feed that woo. Right. Or my ability to be in front of a large group or facilitate.
Rachel Kagay (52:51.93)
Mm-hmm.
Bill Dippel (52:58.634)
Even one-on-one meeting new meeting new clients and capabilities And all that happens outside of the outside of the home. So I my wife who listens to all of these podcasts is probably sitting there going Well, I wish you'd bring Wu home every now and then it'd be nice to actually You know offload
Sarah Collins (53:14.417)
Right?
Rachel Kagay (53:15.802)
show up with flowers and try to win her over. Yeah.
Sarah Collins (53:18.426)
Yeah.
Bill Dippel (53:18.86)
Winning. Winning is that opening word I'm trying.
Sarah Collins (53:22.983)
I will, I'm gonna go to our LinkedIn poll, but one of the things that just came to my mind that I feel like will be a great soundbite, so I'm gonna say it out loud on this podcast, is when you have woo and you really get to use it, I feel like that woo is intoxicating. I don't know if every single person with woo feels that way, but for me, what you're talking about, Rachel, of like the...
Rachel Kagay (53:37.37)
Hmm.
Sarah Collins (53:43.959)
when you're in it and you're using it and sometimes you have to, again, we're trying to mature it to think about the why, what is my purpose here? Am I really winning people over? Am I listening to people? You know, that's all the maturing, but I think it's hard for woo because if you have woo and when you are truly in the woo vein, it's intoxicating. It's like a drug. It's so delicious to feed off of it.
Rachel Kagay (54:09.86)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Collins (54:09.955)
It just, think makes us all feel a little high when we're in a really wooey situation. That doesn't always get us the results we want in our life, in our businesses, in the world. But I think that's, it's like, it's a drug that needs to be, you can use it for good, but you have to be strategic about what it looks like. And so I would add that to the conversation. If you are...
Rachel Kagay (54:16.729)
Mm-hmm.
Bill Dippel (54:30.51)
Yeah, it is a it is a dopamine hit for for us and when we're doing it well, when we're mature in the balcony, it's a dopamine hit for those around us. you see me. You're wooing. You're winning me over. are when you're for, you know, when you do it correctly and the people's people are receptive to it. And for us, it is it's a hit. I absolutely agree with you. It's like a drug where, hey, this this is really blending well.
Rachel Kagay (54:32.91)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Collins (54:34.554)
Yeah.
Rachel Kagay (54:38.691)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Sarah Collins (54:42.118)
Yeah.
Rachel Kagay (54:51.449)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (54:59.034)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Collins (54:59.151)
And I'm always afraid. I've met people when you're with them and you're in their vortex, it feels so delicious and wonderful and amazing. And then if you're not in their vortex, you're like, it's so lonely and dark over here. And I'm constantly afraid I'm that way with people because of my woo. I'm afraid that when I got my lens on you, it is that dopamine hit for us both. And we're vibing in this energy and we're here together. But the moment I turn it on someone else.
Rachel Kagay (55:14.776)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Collins (55:26.343)
You're like, Hey, I thought we were friends. We were really vibing. What happened? And so I feel like I'm constantly trying to remember to not leave people in the dark, to don't just drop everybody and turn that onto other people. And it's, it's a personal challenge, but I want to go to my LinkedIn poll. So we asked people on LinkedIn, how do you experience people with high woo? And I must have a lot of high woo people on here because 42 % said they love their energy.
Rachel Kagay (55:28.858)
You
Bill Dippel (55:49.409)
Sarah Collins (55:54.535)
25 % said fun, but sometimes too much. 25 % says it depends on the context. And 8 % said I need a nap after. And some of these comments are really good. So Laura Lynn Horst said, I'm so looking forward to this episode. As an introverted woo, I sometimes struggle with the need to connect and the need to recharge.
And this is a common misconception that I always point out to people. People will assume if you have woo, you're an extrovert, which means you derive energy from people. Not true. Just like Laura, you can be an introvert, which is deriving energy when you are alone and still be a woo. And I think this just gets confused in people's minds all the time. Woo is winning others over. You want people to like you. That does not mean
Rachel Kagay (56:19.962)
Hmm.
Rachel Kagay (56:38.371)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (56:47.098)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Collins (56:49.115)
that being around people all the time gives you energy. Any thoughts on that?
Bill Dippel (56:53.592)
So no, very well said. I'm an E on the Myers-Briggs, so it says I'm an extrovert. But if you really look at it, I'm really close. Right? It's actually, I'm right on the line or a little above it. And we've talked about this several times. I sometimes know I don't want to expend that energy. So at those moments, I feel introverted. I feel like now I am
Rachel Kagay (56:55.535)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (57:02.756)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (57:20.655)
Mm-hmm.
Bill Dippel (57:22.508)
Retreating or coming back to myself those moments when my wife and I just chill and relax mean a lot to me Because I've spent all day being extroverted so I might need some introverted time and I completely agree with the sentiment of it's a mistaken component for woo often that people think you're just always fueled by other human beings Sometimes being in a crowd of of quiet people winning them over is being quiet
Rachel Kagay (57:46.809)
Yeah.
Rachel Kagay (57:52.515)
Yeah, I think that's what makes the assessment so great is that when used well, it helps us understand that none of us are just one thing. My woo might be very dominant in certain moments, but it is sharpened and tempered by the other talents around it. Right. And so my woo looks very different than yours, Sarah, because I don't have as many influencing themes as you do. Right.
And so sometimes it does look a little quieter. I prefer a smaller group of people to win over now. And I do need sometimes some energy or some time alone to recharge and replenish that energy so that I can go out and bring that woo energy that I want when a bigger group requires it. So I love that idea. And that's why I love this assessment is that none of us are just one thing.
and our other talents are what help bring context, not to use another theme name, but relevancy to how that woo shows up.
Sarah Collins (59:04.433)
really well said. Now we need to know more about Rachel's firework moments. So tell us, it can be woo but it can be any theme. When have your strengths put you in that firework moment where things are all shooting on all cylinders? Boom, boom, boom.
Rachel Kagay (59:21.336)
man, that's such a great question. think it's oftentimes it is in those team sessions where I can't think of one specific moment, but well, maybe I can. was with a team that was there was kind of some underlying tension about change that was getting ready to happen in the organization, but no one felt real safe to express that.
why they were feeling discomfort with the change. And so I love those sort of environments because by that point, when I can start diagnosing that, it's usually my woo's already been in effect. And so I've won individually the room over. That's why I prefer smaller rooms. And then my harmony and maximizer can show up to kind of address the elephant in the room and create a safe environment where people feel like they can share what needs to be said.
I think a lot of that has to do with my belief too, because in any group session that I do, I kind of start with a set of shared values that we kind of, I start with some, I ask them to contribute. So we've kind of got a guiding principle in the room. And I love those moments where I can help us call attention to the elephant in the room and address it and not just ignore it or keep sticking it in the corner. That's where my strengths really are on fire. I love that.
Sarah Collins (01:00:46.853)
Yeah, you can hear, I love how you've narrowed down this smaller mid-size group that you can really wrap your hands around and win them on an individual level and then come in and elevate them with your other themes. I think that's really powerful. And you can hear the self-awareness that you have clearly worked on to get yourself into that sweet spot to experience your own excellence, to be able to bring out the best in those groups.
Rachel Kagay (01:01:02.19)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Kagay (01:01:12.815)
Yeah.
Thanks. Thank you.
Sarah Collins (01:01:16.591)
Yeah, now I have to ask you, when have they come into a dumpster fire moment? When do they backfire and get in your way?
Bill Dippel (01:01:18.987)
Yeah, yeah, when's the when's the bad one? When did when did the firework lighted dumpster on fire for you?
Rachel Kagay (01:01:20.481)
gosh.
Rachel Kagay (01:01:25.9)
Yeah, well, I kicked us off with a story about being called publicly annoying. So that was certainly a dumpster fire moment, I think. I also know, so I've got maximizer and responsibility in my top five. And I had the advantage, I had the deep privilege of going through the accelerated coaching course with Al Winsman and Kurt Liesfeld as my facilitators.
Bill Dippel (01:01:34.903)
Hahaha.
Rachel Kagay (01:01:53.226)
And I'll never forget, Bill, I think we were even eating together when I told this story too, that Kurt came around and he saw we shared those maximizer and responsibility on top five. And I'll never forget him saying, out for those. We can be a bit of perfectionistic procrastinators. And again, that was another one of those I feel so seen moments because I can really get in my own way or kind of become a dumpster fire when I want everything to be perfect.
but I've overloaded myself with responsibility. I've kind of hit that point and was near burnout at the end of last year. I had taken on way more clients than I should have in addition to several volunteer responsibilities. and I have three kids at home and we have a farm. And I was drowning and I wanted everything to be perfect. And so I kind of had to start saying a lot of very hard no's and quitting some things, which I'm not good at.
And so it kind of was a dumpster fire for me. I didn't feel like I was serving anyone well at the end of last year. I don't know that my clients would say that, but I felt it. So I think that would be it for me.
Sarah Collins (01:03:04.507)
I love that awareness around the maximizer responsibility. The wanting it to be perfect, but taking on too much or procrastinating to then.
Rachel Kagay (01:03:08.281)
Hmm
Rachel Kagay (01:03:13.069)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Bill Dippel (01:03:17.571)
I'm surprised how many people when we've come up with the dumpster fire side have used Maximizer as a possibility. So I'm thinking that's a future question on our end, something we might have to put in the mix, Sarah. So yeah, yeah. So.
Rachel Kagay (01:03:23.609)
Mmm.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Sarah Collins (01:03:31.451)
Yeah, you're right.
Rachel Kagay (01:03:33.729)
Yeah, I told Bill this the other day, Sarah, when we were talking about something else. I thought, I wish I had been on your responsibility episode, because I listened to that. And man, I I felt like my head was going to nod off, because I just so resonated with everything the three of you discussed. But my maximizer really shows up with my responsibility as well. So as a strengths coach, I've had to think through, how do I help those things be at their best instead of continually pulling me to the basement?
that has looked like a lot of very intentional nos and yeses in the last year.
Sarah Collins (01:04:09.991)
Yeah, really powerful.
Bill Dippel (01:04:12.374)
Very, very well said. And Rachel, I mean, just bringing the heat today on some really good woo moments, wooing it up with our our arsonist today. Shocker that three woos would be at an event together and then one of them gets invited into the Uber last minute, you know, jumps in and gets a gets a good ride to the airport.
Rachel Kagay (01:04:12.537)
Thanks.
Bill Dippel (01:04:36.704)
just inside joke for ours and as we had the three of us shared a ride and loved every minute of it, it was a lot of fun. there was a.
Rachel Kagay (01:04:38.926)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Collins (01:04:43.697)
Well, and it was really...
Rachel Kagay (01:04:43.875)
Yeah, I didn't know that I accidentally invited myself into that ride.
Sarah Collins (01:04:47.941)
You're you didn't accidentally invite yourself. I totally invited you. Bill and I always had plans to go to the airport together. And then Rachel's like, well, I got to go at the same time. I'm like, great, let's go together. And then I'm like, hey, Bill, Rachel's coming with us. Meet Rachel. She's coming with us. He was like, I've already met her. This is great.
Bill Dippel (01:04:48.034)
You
Rachel Kagay (01:04:51.417)
E?
Bill Dippel (01:04:51.511)
Yeah.
Bill Dippel (01:04:56.812)
Let's go.
Rachel Kagay (01:05:01.273)
There we go.
Bill Dippel (01:05:02.228)
I was like, cool, we got another woo. I don't know if I don't I don't know if our Uber driver can handle three woos in his car, but I think he did all right. He got us there safely. So, yeah.
Rachel Kagay (01:05:03.926)
Awesome.
Rachel Kagay (01:05:07.628)
Yeah.
Rachel Kagay (01:05:12.959)
Yeah, yeah, you gotta start.
Sarah Collins (01:05:14.479)
Yeah, let's just say we were talking the whole time and now we're making podcast history because we did win each other over.
Bill Dippel (01:05:21.678)
Over as well as the other arsonist. Hopefully we won one or two back. So, alright Rachel Well, thank you very much for coming on today sharing your insights around woo, but also where that harmony Inflection comes in right talking about all of the Responsibility and how much you felt that and some some tricky moments around the maximizer, too Those are all really valid really valuable moments and thanks for coming on the show today
Rachel Kagay (01:05:22.637)
Yeah.
Rachel Kagay (01:05:47.661)
Thanks, my honor. Thanks for having me.
Bill Dippel (01:05:50.282)
So good. And with that, we are going to sign off today, move on to the next one and we will talk soon.
Sarah Collins (01:05:59.623)
Bye!